i*ve been banned, is that fair?
As many of you know, I was a member of the UAE Community blog, and have written posts that were featured in Gulf News a couple of times.
As of last night, I have been BANNED from the UAE Comm blog by sam, following a defense of SD's allegations that was deleted, and can be found here.
Please click here for sam's justification to ban me.
Please click here, here & here for other examples where I have voiced opinions and been attacked for doing so.
I do not agree with this ban for obvious reasons. Firstly, I believe SD & sam are strongly prejudiced towards my views (SD has also banned me from her personal blog). Most of you know I express these in a calm and civil way. Hence, the decision to ban me is undemocratic, especially in the light of the petition for "free speech" on the same blog, and discriminatory, because my views differ.
Now, if you advocate free speech, and dislike all things that undermine the right to express one's opinion, then why have I been BANNED from the UAE Community Blog?
If you are in favour of my ban, please let it be known.
If you think it is wrong and unfair for me to be banned from the UAE Community blog, please state your opinion in the comments section.
If you would like to take your support one step further, please cross-post this on the UAE Comm blog, or make your opinions known to SD & sam.
Being silenced from a Community blog is as siginificant as a blog being blocked.
70 comments:
1. I don't support the ban. In my view you did not say anything sufficiently outrageous to warrant it and you acting like a troll to derail the debate is not good enough a reason for the ban.
2. It is entirely up to blog owners who they allow to comment. Nothing to do with "freedom of speech".
It's like any publisher of a newspaper decides what he wants to publish. You can always go to another one - or publish your views on your own blog.
You comparing this with the UAE Government ban on websites is ridiculous.
3. Your false patriotism and accusations of of anti-Arab agenda are understandable, but ludicrous.
That's just my take on the links that you provided - I may be missing something as I have not followed the SD blog and don't know how this started.
i*maginate:
I really like you, but I think you are being illogical here.
hmmmm -when did this happen? I am surprised Sam felt this was necessary? I mean you three (Sam, DS and yourself) have difference of opinions/sentiments. But I surely do not think it warrants "ban" - I thought that's for people who are out to cause "real" trouble like posting porn on UAECB and threats to kids etc (we had someone like that a while back).
Even though it is Sam's blog, I shall write to Sam/SD to reconsider. I think it's critical people with different views/opinion debate/blog to see (or at least) know of the opposing view - simultaneously respecting such views. Plus your posts are well written (like SD's) - always a pleasure to read :)
shlemazl: I do not think this ban is correct or in line with the purpose of blogs? This is not newspaper editorials.
@Rosh:
1. Don't think you understood what I said.
2. No such thing as "the purpose of blogs". Blogs have different objectives and methods. Some blogs don't allow comments at all. Others allow only authorized commentators. Some don't ban anyone at all.
It's entirely up to the author of the blog. All of the above approaches are fully in line with the freedom of speech as long as governments don't start emposing blanket bans on certain subjects.
Sorry to hear about this i*maginate. Hopefully someone will get over their sissy fit and see sense again.
I agree with you shlemazl its 100% upto the blog owner(s) to decide.
My only grief is that the owner(s) have constantly voiced their opinions several times on unpopular subjects. Their so-called beliefs that everyone’s opinion matters, as long as the subject is within a certain amount of boundry has just been proven to be a hypocritical manoeuvring of words. In no way has i*maginate crossed any of these boundaries, in this way they are banning the UAE community of a blogger who has differing opinions than themselves, a blogger who has the ability to debate their posts without having to resort to the use of derogatory/abusive language as we have seen in those links. All this is done whilst preaching “Free Speech”, just reeks of hypocrisy to me.
I don’t know how you cannot see this shlemazl.
@tobasco:
1.Read the very first comment, the very first sentence.
2. This has nothing to do with hypocricy or free speech. Fighting against government censorship is not the same as policing your own blog.
3. I*maginate stated:
"Your blog does nothing but spread hatred towards the "UAE" & "Arabs".
I can see why SD interpreted the statement as malicious paranoid bullshit aimed at stifling debate. As far as I can tell SDs article was a well justified and properly expressed criticism of an outrageous impingement of the free speech.
i*maginate made a serious accusation = incitement of racial hate. She not be banned, but she should apologize.
I don't know the details of this fight neither do I know what the hell a "UAE community blog" is, which is ironically run by an Aussie? Living to his true Australian heritage, he uses the F word like it's his mother's maiden name.
My support is fully with you, but I need to tell you this i*maginate, why do you bother with these people? Subhan Allah! It might be that you guys know each other at work in which case my advice wouldn't hold. But, so what if you are banned on some stupid blog?
If samuraisam reads this: Your obvious bias shows with the way you talk. There are people in this World who can cut through your puerile garbage and see you for the absurd person you are. this is definitely not the way to talk to a woman! And it's nice to see you get so involved in a cat fight - how manly of you.
i*maginate, I am disappointed to know you have this clown on MSN! If you have him on MSN I think you might have even met this person. Take a brotherly advice, block him on MSN and please spare yourself this bull crap. Look at the way he talks to you! Wallahi, if this guy would be in front of me and used such words for a Muslimah, I would break every one of his teeth! La hawla wala quwwata!
"Look at the way he talks to you! Wallahi, if this guy would be in front of me and used such words for a Muslimah, I would break every one of his teeth! La hawla wala quwwata!"
How very religious of you.
Samuraisam:
First let me say its Tobasco not Tabasco and I don’t have any reading problems. Now calm down and get yourself together so we can atleast resemble an adult-like debate.
i*maginate doesn’t hate all expats as you say she does, not to my knowledge anyway. She’s fed up about all the whining, moaning and how posts are twisted in such a way to poke fun at the UAE. Anyone can who is patriotic will understand that. She has already stated she has no grief or problems with you and other respectable bloggers who do bring up unpopular subjects that need to be discussed and made aware to everyone. I don’t have a problem with you either and actually quite like your blog.
You don’t know neither head nor tail of what people here care about because you’re reading their words on the fucking internet; don’t try and act like you can read people’s minds through a few paragraphs and automatically dismiss what they care about and what they don’t
You wrote that yet you proclaim you can read through i*maginate’s lines. I actually like what you wrote their, because it’s true. No one knows what’s going on through others mind by reading a few sentences.
Ok maybe i*maginate went head on in letting a few people know that she doesn’t like what they post about, which she is entitled to. She hasn’t held back her feelings and made everyone aware of this.
Shlemazl:
1.I read the first sentence that’s why I said I agree with you ;)
2.SD has every right policing her blog and the UAE Community, but please not to use free speech in criticising a country then not exercising what she preaches, you understand me. That’s called double standards.
3.i*maginate is right in saying SD’s blog does nothing but spread hatred towards the UAE & Arabs. That’s her opinion and happens to be mine as well.
Shlemazl, have you been to UAE? If not what are the perceptions you get when you read SD’s blog?
Firstly, I'd like to thank each one of you for whatever you've said, and for your support.
*shlemazl, my points have actually encouraged debate and because of the points I'd raised a lot of comments and opinions followed. There were some very interesting points of view which I respected, and I think my views were interpreted as malice only because I was seeking answers. Otherwise I would not have responded to those comments.
This post is not to do with the ban on SDs blog - that is her choice, but it does seem to me that I was blocked because she had no answer to the actual points I made, just like sam has no answer to the simple fact that he has banned me from the UAE Comm blog merely for having opinions. Although he jointly runs that blog with a couple of other admins, it is a COMMUNITY blog, and since there are so many other members, even anonymous comments, that are DEFINITELY malicious, I don't see why these comments are not deleted, and I am publicly banned. Double-standards.
And perhaps you may know that a Jewish poster, Lirun, has been made a member of a UAE Comm blog while posting his radical views, while I have been blocked.
In response to your missing something, there's not really much more to add that is not mentioned within the post. I have deliberately refrained from posting opinions within the post: only facts, as I see them. And the fact remains, from the facts I have provided, that I have been unfairly banned.
That's why I don't think there's anything more for me to add here.
Thanks for passing by, and for your view. I like you too, and I like the way you put your points accross because it encourages debate.
*rosh, agreed, and thanks a lot for your support.
Yes, UAE Comm blog is a blog, and the authors of course have a right to block anyone they want, but I see this as highly unfair, given it's a COMMUNITY blog, and there is clear prejudice in deciding to ban me, especially when I'm accused of muckraking - there are zillions of anonymous comments on that blog doing more than muckraking!
again, shlemazl, what I said on SDs blog is not what this post is about. And by all means, if she can't handle another point of view, she should block me if that's what she wants.
"incitement of racial hate." shlemazl, you've even posted many comments to you accusing you of the same thing. I don't see you telling those people to fuck off when they come to your blog, so maybe others should learn from your way of doing things.
I certainly don't tell anyone to fuck off from my blog, two of the bloggers mentioned on my "dislike"
list, including SD herself, have contributed many interesting comments on this blog, despite knowing they're on my dislike list. Disagreeing with someone's views shouldn't mean closing off all communication with them, and it would be quite immature and ignorant to do so. It's like saying "shut up, I don't wanna hear what you have to say just because I don't like it" and by the way, I've got even more respect for these two bloggers to show up here, more than once, debating with me. I am seriously confused as to why SD has come on here, discussing stuff with me, seeing I am able to be "civil" enough to exchange ideas with her, and rather strangely, soon dismiss me from her own blog just coz I voiced some political opinions which I had never before done on her blog.
*al repub, you make some valid points. To clear a few things up, I don't know sam personally and nor do I know any other bloggers personally.
I generally don't correspond with bloggers offline, my email is up mainly to get invited to blogs which are "invite-only", for which I'd need to provide an address.
Sam has a wealth of knowledge, and as a respected blogger, I wanted to ask him a couple of Q's which he was kind enough to answer, just when I had started bloggin. That info was useful.
And as another respected blogger once pointed out, it doesn't really matter how much someone swears. I don't take it personally, the way they talk is their problem. I think we can both agree that it is quite indecent to swear left, right and centre.
Why do I bother with the UAE blog? It's interesting, and it's a community platform.
Another thing, I don't care how people talk, but I do prefer it when they don't swear. And anyone talking to me like that in real life...hmm. They wouldn't get away with it. Not in this country :)
Wallahi, sho sawih yakhi ;)
*Sam, read all the comments I've made above if it gives you any more information you already don't know, or rather, don't want to hear, or accept.
As for the dislike list, why can't I make it known which views I like? Don't be such a hypocrite. You don't like my view so you banned me from the UAE blog.
See? I can make a point without calling you any names or assuming your age, and what kind of coffee you like.
Anyway I don't know why you're trying to defend your actions here. Are you indicating you'd reconsider the ban?
*tobasco, thanks for your support.
Yes, this is a little hypocritical too in my view. sam basically says "fuck the tra" on his blog and it's not ok for me to disapprove of other blogs on my own blog. Saying "fuck the tra" while enjoying the sun, sea and sand in Dubai then accusing me of crossing boundaries by having pro-UAE opinions? Hmm...
"How very religious of you."
As far as I know, no major religion would encourage the use of the word "fuck" as much as you do in one single posting.
Religion teaches us to stand up for ourselves when wrong has been done, and speak out against injustice. If this means defending the UAE, or any other country that has been slagged off unjustly, nothing will stop me.
That includes a dislike of the stereotype that all Aussies were originally prisoners.
*tobasco, you are right, I agree and accept what you've written.
"i*maginate doesn’t hate all expats" - actually, I'm the kind of person in real life who dislikes the word "hate." I might say I hate something, like a kind of food or something, but certainly don't hate anybody. That's specifically why the "dislike" list doesn't have the word "hate" in it.
"No one knows what’s going on through others mind by reading a few sentences." That's true, BUT when you are reading blogs such as sam's and SDs with a strong central theme, "you are what you write". They have posted their opinions in other blogs as well, and I see this as a reflection of their opinions.
What is irreligious about me knocking samuraisam's kisser? Just in case you didn't know, samuraisam, our "holy" men are not supposed to stay single all their lives, not even hurt a fly, frustrated as hell till they end up molesting children.
The religion I follow, we take pride in ourselves. We respect women be they even non-Muslims. And if a low life such as yourself doesn't know how to talk to a lady (I wonder if you talk like that to your mother?) then we sure beat the hell out of such people. THAT is women's rights for you!
i*maginate this entire free-speech thing is a facade for their agenda to spread chaos in our lives. They have all the rights to say "fuck the tra", but the moment you say "i love the tra" they will label you a terrorist, towel-head, camel herder and God knows what else. Then they will systematically take you out by ganging up on you and live in their ignoramous world of "free speech". They decide what is supposed to be "free" and what is supposed to be censored. So, the way I see it, they are just white versions of Etisalat (whom they love to hate).
In any case, I LOVE ETISALAT! I don't even know why these guys get pissed off if they get banned because most people can read their nauseating agendas from other services! Anyone in DIC/DMC can access those pages so what is all this hue and cry about? Attention hoggers, I say.
I remember calling samuraisam SD's sidekick when I first started commenting on her blog. He would defend her tooth and nail against me for absolutely no reason! I wouldn't even be attacking her and he would just have to show his loyalty to her! It was pretty obvious.
So not only am I confused at i*maginate knowing him, I am also quite frankly confused why SD (who I believe is a level headed individual) hangs out in the cyber world with him?
I am being too harsh on they guy, aren't I? :P
I*
I support you 10000000%
I believe that actions are lauder than lame comments and petitions... you will see what will happen ;-)
1. First time I read SD's or UAE community blog was today - because S&D got blocked by UAE.
2. I have come across Lirun before. What's radical about him?
If anyone appears a paranoid radical it's al-republican, who "respects EVEN non-muslim women" and claims that free speech is facade for "their" agenda.
3. You are right, I do chose to tolerate commentators who call me names on my blog. They don't bother me because they are obvious imbeciles. I don't think you should have been banned and yet...
I was very surprised to see YOU accusing SD of being "anti-Arab" without any obvious justification and I do think that you owe her an apology.
@Tobasco:
I have never been to UAE. I consider it to be the most liberal of the Arab countries (alongside Lebanon). Based on I what I know - and I might well be wrong - I do not consider it to be a free or a civilized country and I have no wish to visit. Here is what I know:
- You can drink alcohol, conduct business freely and visit UAE having visited Israel. This is better than most Arab countries.
- Ubicuitous prostitution.
- You can be imprisoned for 5 years for "violating social principles, moral values or posting online information disrupting morals".
- Your leader has 2 wives.
- Low taxation, high growth. Oil represents a realtively small proportion of the income (one fifth?).
- Your leader treats the income of the country as his household income.
- Non-muslims can no longer be lashed, but Muslims are still subject to this Medieval punishment. I read that a teenage girl was sentenced to 60 lashes for having had sex in 2005. Your Supreme court has upheld the punishment.
- Israelis are not allowed to visit and Israeli websites are banned.
- Homosexuality is illegal and gays get arrested.
Did I get anything wrong?
Hi i*maginate, I read your comments on the devil's advocate post and I really couldn't see any bad language or misbehavior there.
I said it before and I'll say it again, I've never seen any kind of hate from you towards expats.
The strongest leaders use the lightest touch.
This soap opera is so unnecessary.
OK, i*maginate, I just read through the links you provided of the discord between you and samuraisam (alongwith SD). Frankly, it looks really silly on both sides.
From your side, I can see that you clearly messed up when the blogger didn't imply the government of UAE at all. So your bad there :P
But, having said that, I think the reaction from SD and samuraisam was pretty harsh, too. OK, so you misunderstood what the author wrote. Why did that warrant a ban from the community? Perhaps they have been building on your previous comments/posts?
In the end, it's all a bit silly, really. I think you all need to take a chill pill and stop taking the internet so seriously.
I have to say though that this rivalry is getting interesting :P
I*maginate personally I think it is unfair and a bit extreme to ban you from the site but on the other hand if you are rude and insulting to people you should expect consequences - calling someone a shitpat is rude and insulting in any culture.
Keep up the blog though, I enjoy it!
While I dont agree with all your opinion I*, i have to say that I share your opinion of the way uaecommunity blog is administered. I have the greatest respect to SD and am happy to discuss with her our disagreement, I do not extend this respect to sam whose way of responding to arguments is more fit of uncivilised Marcians more than us.
Personally, I do not take part in the community blog because of the influence Sam has on what is filtered and what is not. My last input there was December 05 (link:https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=15456688&postID=113393917557960987 ) and I thought then as I do now that Sam is both unfair and obnoxious and has way too much influence on that website. (I could make the same conclusion from his discussion here too)
shlemazl-
So you don't want to come visit the UAE because the leader here has 2 wives?? Talk about missing the big, fat proverbial elephant in the room!
In any event, I can tell you that you are not being missed and certainly there aren't any people here greying their hair waiting for you to come and grace the UAE with your presence.
Shalom :)
al-republican:
السلام عليكم
I was asked whether I have been to UAE and I provided several reasons why I haven't. If that's too much for you to handle, I can summarize it in one sentence:
UAE is not a free country and - unlike yourself - I value freedom.
Sigh. I*, they're not worth it. I agree that this is all double standards and that you don't deserve to be banned.
They treat all ideas that they don't in the most sarcastic way ever, constantly mocking the country, culture and sometimes even religion. Yet if someone treats them the same way it's "illogical" and "trying to stir up fights". And I'm not quoting word by word here as I don't have any intentions of rereading those ridiculous comments. Yes, I'm entitled to my opinion, I think they're stupid comments.
Anyways i*, don't bother really. Whatever. You have your own following, who gives a rat's tail about this "community" blog.
@Sam I am,
Are you sure it's just Mountain Dew that you are drinking? Whatever you are drinking (or smoking) it makes you sound utterly pathetic. Here is why:
1. Arguments and comments make you THAT upset? Give me your address, I will send you my gandma's hankie.
2. Having banned someone for being argumentative, you go on her blog to argue. Now, that is HYPOCRITICAL.
3. As soon as people reach the level of responsibility beyond their abilities, they start misusing their authority. Please don't tell me that being a blog admin went to your head.
4. You do realize that you are talking to a real person and that you are doing it in public? You are SO out of order - its unbelievable. You are giving westerners a bad name.
5. I get that weird feeling that you consider yourself hilarious. Pleeease tell me that I am wrong.
@i*maginate
This guy is either drunk or a moron. In the latter case he isn't going to backtrack. If you are that bothered you should set up your own "UAE community blog".
Our UAE community blog, I was thinking of doing something of the sort.
What say you i*?
Hahaha, I am laughing out of my pants reading samuraisam's comments!
He is so obviously frustrated and is trying to paint a picture like its all fine and dandy :P
Wow, samuraisam, you take the internet PURTY serious, mate! No wonder you guys are so pissed off at Etisalat! your life revolves around your blog.
What a sorry state of affairs, sigh. I can befriend you and we can hang out often if you are looking for a friend? Or you can try getting married?
And Finally, in the words of Groucho marx
"I don’t care to belong to any club that will have me as a member."
Pretty much sums it up I reckon...
@ Sam
1. Thanks for calming the fuck down.
2. Stop reading, stop being patriotic and stop arguing is your solution for i*maginate. Reasonable I say.
3. If being an admin is too much hardwork, why don’t you just quit? Or take up shlemazl’s offer and take his grandma’s hankie.
Thanks for confirming who’s the 9yr old here.
@ i*maginate
I am waiting for you to start a *real* UAE Comm blog. I am sure there are a few people out there who would appreciate this.
shlemazl:
Allow me to be perfectly honest; out of all the people that have commented on this thread more than once, you are the only one I respect as having any sort of impartiality and through your previous comment I am willing to offer a reconciliation of the situation based upon your comment (and an email from rosh, someone else who I respect). I’ll let i*maginate rejoin the community and I apologize to her if I overreacted.
”You do realize that you are talking to a real person and that you are doing it in public? You are SO out of order - its unbelievable. You are giving westerners a bad name.”
Well if you don’t like my tone or attitude there isn’t much I can say except that I am not going to change my personality much or at all for anyone on this page; me on the internet and me in real life are quite different, and I don’t think many people know both. Quite honestly, I’ve been given hell in a handcart by more than enough people to earn the right to be pissed off with most people in this country. Even while this whole discussion is going on a bunch of idiots are trying to get my blog blocked, which I find funny considering some of the other people that read my blog.
tobasco:
I am waiting for you to start a *real* UAE Comm blog. I am sure there are a few people out there who would appreciate this.
I love this idea; it’s been presented a thousand times before. But until you can represent 50% of your community as being underpaid sub continental labourers, I wouldn’t bother. Representing *real* UAE society on the internet is somewhat of a farce. There are different schools of thoughts, and if you find a way to mingle them all together without pissing off at least some of the crowd you’d have me in amazement.
Sam,
Thanks. I was obviously unfair to you in my previous comment.
You do seem to be stressed. Don't let the moonbats rattle you.
samuraisam-
You have earned my respect! I came out pretty harsh on you myself. Apologies from my side, too.
Although I think you might not care a damn about what opinion I keep of you, I certainly can appreciate a man who can admit his fault (be it even for pacifying someone).
Well done, mate!
OK, got loads to say here.
*May, thanks. Is there such a thing as 10 million %? LOL ;) Thanks luv.
*shlemazl 08.28, thanks for your interest all along. I saw your comment requesting SD to unban me. I appreciate the comment, thanks.
Lirun is an Israeli and the UAE does not recognise Israel. I would say that’s “stirring up shit” to allow him as a member, based on my observations that a lot of UAE bloggers “shit-stir” and test the boundaries. By allowing Lirun on the blog, I feel this was a “test”.
Re: al republican, I think he’s far from radical. I’d say he’s pretty level headed and mature…and gets his views across by stating facts and encouraging debate where it’s wanted. I think he’s a peaceful person from what I gather and is certainly not a shit-stirrer.
I don’t believe some of the people who call you names are necessary imbeciles, only because they call you names. There are some “moonbats” on your blog who debate effectively, though obviously their views differ to yours.
Again, I don’t know what you mean by “YOU” (me) accusing SD of being anti-Arab. I’ll repeat my justification for this: the majority of her posts poke fun at the Arab/UAE culture. The majority of those who comment on her post slag off the latter in very crude ways, with NO justification, just pure shit. These comments go unanswered by SD. That all adds to the argument why SD is anti-Arab. I will not apologize for coming to this conclusion, which I believe is by no means incorrect.
The point tobasco was making is that when people who haven’t visited the UAE read SDs blog, they form an image of the country which is not true. Put it this way: if I told you otherwise, and al republican told you otherwise too, then nick comes along and tells you all that stuff while admitting he does not “defend the UAE” even while living here, you’d label the both of us as radical and defend nick’s views. For nick to have such strong views against the UAE, I wonder why he, as opposed to you, has any desire to stay in this country.
Hi *Who's-sane! Thanks luv for passing by
*BuJ –
what do you mean “soap opera” – me? The post? The ban?
If it’s “unnecessary”, that’s what’s being debated here. And if there was no “soap opera”, no conclusion would have been reached.
*al-republican 18th July 4:38
Apparently I misinterpreted that is was not the government the author was referring to. I just find it silly that such stupid expressions “stone to death” are used in a simple post about Salik. It’s not like the same authors would use the expression when talking about the congestion charge in London.
If others thought I had made a mistake, then OK, I made a mistake. Maybe my English TOTLY SUX but better to SUX and be told that I suck rather than banning me. Perhaps a nincompoop with a brain like mine could learn better for the future. And perhaps if that nincompoop never learned better, that would be their opinion. Stupid as the opinion might be, that would be an opinion. And I bet that nincompoop might disagree with others they label as nincompoops, but then, who’s right and who’s wrong?
*Rose in Dubai
Simply labelling someone as shitpat (my label only applies to SD), then having the same person discuss stuff with you on your blog, and debate with them in a civil way, knowing that person knows they’re labelled as a shitpat does not seem like much of an insult to me.
Shitpat doesn’t apply to any culture!
The only “consequence” I expect in voicing my opinion is to share my view. I can deal with all kinds of comments. But I’d prefer not to get banned on the UAE Comm blog for reasons already mentioned.
Thx, glad you enjoy the blog!
*e3ashig I don’t quite get what opinion you disagree with.
On another point, as long as I can share my opinion on the UAE Comm blog without getting unjustly banned, I’ll be happy. You chose to refrain from involvement on the blog because you didn’t want to take it up with sam. If you thought he’s unfair because he doesn’t agree with your opinions, that’s another thing. But if he doesn’t agree with your stating your opinions, that’s another thing too. I wouldn’t take it personally, and neither have I, even when I have come under fire for sharing some of my own views. The difference between you and me is that I care to be on the UAE Comm blog and have made that known to sam.
*al republican, about the point shlemazl made about the 2 wives thing, I don’t see how that’s a deterrent to visiting the UAE. Just how some wouldn’t mind visiting America even if Bush is a cowboy and Clinton had more than just presidential affairs.
*shlemazl Freedom: big topic!
*sam
“Why does she keep on reading them?”
Why shouldn’t I? As long as my comments are being published, I’d love to share my views.
”I don't give two shits for your view, I've heard it a hundred times before”
I’ve read posts 100 times that I don’t like, and that I like. I’ve made it known, haven’t I. Behaviour? Don’t really know how you define my “behaviour” – I think you like to think I’m shit-stirring while others think you’re obnoxious. See?
“I've heard your views from hundreds of people and I don't care to hear them again” I suppose that goes with what you said “if you don’t like it, don’t read it” – No, I do like the UAE Comm blog, that’s why I read it. I don’t see, based on whatever kind of logic YOU claim to possess, why you should read my comments if you don’t like them.
I’m not interested in googling things that piss you off. That’s your business. We’re talking about the UAE Comm blog here.
“complex words” I don’t think anyone would agree my words are complex ;)
“If you find a post offensive of malicious, WHY THE FUCK NOT COMPLAIN ABOUT IT YOU FUCKING IDIOT.”
You’re the admin, it’s your job to decide what posts are malicious and offensive. If that is some form of polite request for my opinion on whether a post is offensive or malicious, I’ll happily go the extra mile and start email correspondence with you on the matter. But I suspect you are fully aware of what is malicious and what is not. So you really don’t need my input.
“Are you sitting there saying "OH SHIT SAMS, THER R COMEMNTS ON TEH COMMUNITAY BLAG”
No, I don’t talk like that. And I don’t talk to the computer.
“”What do you all think happens when you see something offensive? Do you think my computer starts beeping and red lights start flashing until I spray retard-control all over your faces?”
On the Comm blog, I believe no comment that admins find offensive is undeleted. So yes, I do believe admins scan the blog for offensive remarks.
I said: "since there are so many other members, even anonymous comments, that are DEFINITELY malicious"
You said: What the fuck kind of detail is that?
It’s true and accurate. Next time, I’ll point specifics out to you.
And by the way, I think some idiot saying stuff about westerner and toilet paper is malicious too, and I’ve stated this opinion on SDs blog. So I’m not quite as anti-western as you wrongly think.
“You're trying to create bullshit”
I’m not. If I wanted to, this post would have had a whole new approach.
*TS Thanks ;)
“who gives a rat's tail about this "community" blog.”
I do. So do you, seeing from your involvement on it.
*al republican LOL. I’d rather you started a blog than consider befriending any blogger if it’s a time issue. You’d make a whole load more friends that way ;)
*Guy, my, my. We have a human text book on this blog!
*sam ref your last comments.
I don’t see why you think shlemazl’s got the only impartial view on here. What he’s saying is what most others are saying too, in the 5 point list he made.
That aside, I don’t mind how you talk to me. As far as I am concerned, we don’t know each other so it makes no difference to me. Going with shlemazl’s opinion that your approach gives westerners a bad name, there will be others who will resent the way you talk (which arguably is not that civil, not mature) and will equate other “western” people in the same bracket. I’m not here to lecture you, I just wanted to make a point how some people can jump to conclusions and generalise, especially if it’s just words they’re reading.
“Quite honestly, I’ve been given hell in a handcart by more than enough people to earn the right to be pissed off with most people in this country.”
Don’t take it out on me. You don’t know me personally, I don’t know you, so don’t take your personal problems out on me.
I have nothing to do with those forums by the way, not that you were implying that. Just coz those guys have an agenda, doesn’t mean I’m in the same boat. And by the way, all this time, I don’t wanna get involved in lectures and stuff, but you’ve revealed things that make me understand why it is that you think I’m a “stupid idiot”. I’m not, given the reasoning you’ve just detailed.
Now. Thank you for removing the ban. I am very flattered you think it’s necessary to apologise, and I think that’s quite decent. I don’t want you to apologise, there is no need. There was no personal offence taken with any "overreaction", I am grateful that you heard what I had to say about the ban.
And don’t misinterpret that as “ass-kissing” – I don’t need to kiss your ass, as I’ve demonstrated. I was just being sincere for your reconsideration of the ban removal.
Before I start commenting on the UAE blog, or posting, I need you to clarify if, in view of my ban being lifted, you have any specific guidelines for my posts, or my comments. Can I continue to post along the same schools of thought and approach as in the past? Or will you be expecting a different approach?
The fact that Lirun is a Jewish Israeli does not make him a "radical". As most Israelis he is keen to establish peace with Arabs and to normalize relationship with Arab countries. I really don't think that inviting someone like this is "stirring shit".
No idea why he was invited. Perhaps SD does not support the view of certain professors from UAE:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N9BOPR3yhY4
Do you?
shlemazl-
I've been trying to decipher if the pic on your profile is a monkey or a cowboy?
I have come to the realization that it is George "Dubya" Bush who is both a cowboy and a monkey!
Thank you for your kind attention :P
It's me. Can't you recognize a Jew when you see one?
You both make me crack up!
Sam. All she wants is attention. We should just ignore her. If you give her any attention or voice your frustration, she gets what she wants in the end. Attention. and look at the title of the blog. . . Desperate Princess in Dubai.. doesn't that speak volumes?
Glad your back on! Now for the sake of your blood pressure and everyone else's lets all be nice lol!
There's a thing I've noticed and I'd be ionterested if its a language thing or a culture thing, but a lot of people here don't seem to understand the difference between an insult and a criticism.
Its an insult to call someone a shitpat and although "freedom of speech" means you have every right to do so, it isn't polite or constructive. Think about it this way, if I came to your home and called you a shitpat you would be totally justified in throwing me out, or even calling me something worse back - which is the root of the problem with insults.
A criticism is when you say "I don't like this person's blog because I think..." That is a completely different thing because at this point you are opening up to a converation: "really, I don't see it that way, have you looked at it this way" If you can have this conversation without throwing a hissy fit you both might learn something about the other and even if you don't change your opinion you have both learned something.
Something that depresses me about this part of the world is that people don't seem to be able to make a critical comment without being insulted back. But it is so common I do wonder if this is a language barrier thing.
Any comments?
Hi anon - the only times I've deleted comments on this blog so far have been spam. I do appreciate you leaving your opinion here, but I would prefer it if such subjects could be debated elsewhere, for example some of the blogs I've linked to.
*rose in dubai - thanks!
I don't think this blog is the place for English lessons - most of the readers, I think, know the difference between an insult and criticism. If you're talking about society in general, well there are a lot of English lessons that could do the rounds, not only the difference between these two words!
Ref to my use of the word shitpat, it's a criticism/opinion for a way of thinking. It's not an insult on its own as I *have* made it known to SD why I don't like her blog. SD has metaphorically "come to my house" ie this blog and not once did I address her with the term "shitpat". Rather, I didn't express any prejudice towards the views she expressed even though her blog is labelled as "shitpat". So no, it's not an insult. It's criticism because I have expressed my views in detail, in no different way than other bloggers have expressed their opinions in this thread.
You see, some have thought the way sam (sorry for bringing this in again but I'll just use it as an example) has addressed me was insulting. BUT this is their opinion. I wasn't insulted myself. Why? Because I have a different "set of rules" to what constitutes an insult, and what doesn't.
I look at the bigger picture and decide whether it's an insult or not.
I don't think it's a language barrier thing, I think it's more to do with culture, and perhaps how sensitive one is as an individual.
Rose in Dubai-
Allow me to explain:
I will agree with you that "shitpat" is an insult. Any labeling on anyone is an insult. This is why I disagree with i*maginate on this. Even though she has clarified her position, I still think we can do without these labels.
Now let me answer how what SD does can be taken as insult. See, as foreigners in a country where they are supposed to "behave" (for lack of a better word) as guests, we have them ridiculing institutions. Etisalat is referred to as "Etishite" and that is more offensive than individually calling an individual "shitpat". Why? Because now you are ridiculing an ENTIRE institution of Arabs!
Yes Etisalat has a long way to go to reach global benchmarks, but such brazen comments are not taken well by people who have set up an institution. I think a lot of people dont even understand the Arab psyche. Arabs, especially Khaleeji Arabs, are VERY loyal to their leaders. They hold them in very high esteem so coming out strong against them is a DIRECT insult to the trust they place in their leaders.
What's more is that Arabs in general will tell you that they dont mind orkut or porn sites being banned. They actually love the fact! So when we have westerners telling them "oh you guys are so backward and your shitty telecom service bans everything" they will naturally feel insulted.
We need to understand that "freedom of speech" is a very subjective phenomenon. While you guys find it perfectly OK to ridicule religious figures including Jesus Christ, we find that as a SERIOUS offence. In the Western system it is OK to be disobedient to parents, but in our system saying even "uff" to anything they say is unimaginable. Our systems are different. We should learn to live with yours and you should learn to live with ours.
I think what has happened in the past 10 years is that globalization has given Westerners (and now even Easterners) a sense of superiority where they think "our value system should be the benchmark and anyone who rejects this way of life is a terrorist!"
al-republican:
What gives you the right to speak for "Arabs in general"? It may come as a surprise to you, but Arabs seem to love porn. According to Ramzi El Khoury's study, 80% of Arab internet traffic heads for porn sites.
I conducted a sex experiment. One of my posts was called "Explicit Sex Video With Very Young Boys". Got lots of hits. Guess where they all came from... That post is still getting hits from countries which never come to "Shlemazl" for any other reason (Syria, Saudi Arabia, etc...)
In any case "Sex & Dubai" is anything but porn and I have seen at least as many UAE Arabs supporting S&D as not. Check out the comments on S&D petition - plenty of UAE Arabs aren't that fond of Etisalat.
So, what we really see here is you through your sense of superiority thinking "my value system should be the benchmark for everyone in UAE".
It is also interesting to see how you talk about "guests" living in UAE. I suspect that a number of them spent many years in the country and have done more for it than you ever will.
Samuraisam-
If that is your line of reasoning (and I am willing to accept it) then I fail to understand why you or anyone should take offense at imaginate calling SD's blog shitpat? According to your own yardstick it is all fair game.
As for the Arab dudes who dont take offence to your mocking and insults then I guess Arabs are pretty tolerant now, arent they? Quite unlike you or your ilk who get frustrated when a pro-UAE statement is given by someone? I rest my case.
Shlemazl-
And your point is? OK, so Arabs d/l porn en masse, so how does this prove that Etisalat sholdn't ban porn sites?? I beg you to PLEASE elaborate on this correlation!
Also, I can understand where you are coming from. Israel and porn and synonymous. You see the current generation of Jewish kids give a rat's ass about Israel and its history. The situation is so dire that American Jews (and other European Jews AND Israeli Jews too) are forgetting the founding "principles" (for lack of a better word) of the nation of Israel. They are totally detached and oblivious to these.
So what has Israel decided to do? They are luring the Jewish youth with their favorite pass time - PORN. Nekkid models draped in the Israeli flag and suggestive poses on a pole holding the Israeli flag. How about completely naked women with "Israel" inscribed in suggestive places? I will let your imagination run wild and google up the other good stuff hehe. The icing on the cake: These nekkid girls are members of the ISRAELI ARMED FORCES. Now there is ingenuity for you :)
The underlying motive is to "market" Israel to the Jewish and Christian youth by slapping its name and flag on their favorite pass time. This will "indoctrinate" the kids as to how Israel is so cool, and hip and like TOTALLY rocking dudes!! At the same time they will be introduced to Israel as their "culture".
That's how desperate you guys have become. 100 out of 100 for the ingenuity though! But, I find it very sad that you have to get so desperate to save your identity that now you are marketing it with naked women. And, what, it isnt even 60 years already?
I will let you laugh your ass off for my newest "islamic conspiracy". When you are done laughing and ridiculing me, I can show you all the proofs you need for this Israeli campaign :)
I can hardly wait for the reponse hehe :D
OK, this is getting way too idiotic for me to waste any more of my time.
*shlemazl
Do note in your "experiment" results that SA is 25% expat (including Catholics, and as many Brits as there are in Dubai) and Syria is 10% Christian.
I don't know how you drew the conclusion that the signatures on the S&D petition are UAE Arabs? In the UAE, you can either be a "UAE local", or a "UAE expat". If you mean "UAE local", my logical guess is that none have signed up. Why? Well...firstly, all the names are anonymous unless identities are revealed. 2ndly, I estimate no more than about 10 active Emirati bloggers that I know of. 3rdly, I estimate not more than half of these are even aware of the block.
"Guests" are guests, call them what you like. Visitors, expats, foreigners etc. They do not hold citizenship of the UAE, and there is no law to give this to foreigners. But believe me, those who have lived here long enough and believe they deserve it should be educated enough, and passionate enough about the UAE to know that the Ministry *does* entertain applications from those who believe they deserve it. See? They do have a chance. And there are loads of locals who have just gained citizenship.
Anyway, why bother giving your all to a country knowing you will never gain citizenship then whining you didn't get it?
sam,
"Why is it if I criticize or even insult Etisalat I am insulting Arabs or locals in generals?"
The answer to this is that Etisalat is government. It is officially illegal to critise the government.
Re: the personal experience you have noted with your friends' reactions, it might be a possibility that they don't respect your opinion, and didn't care to let you know.
At the end of the day, most Arabs would not appreciate you slagging off anything to do with the govt.
Some, as opposed to the individuals in the example you gave, might even go one step further and campaign to block your blog.
Do you see the point I'm trying to make?
From some of the things, and I mean *some*, *not* all, you write in your blog and the personal experiences you mention here and what you say to your friends in conversation shows you cross the line as per the local laws and customs.
Of course you will "continue" as long as you can.
On the topic of porn, my guess is most ladies would want it banned!
Thanks Al Rep, you made my point so much better than I could have lol!
Oh and by the way, it is NOT acceptable in Western culture for kid to insult their parents.
Samuraisam-
Fine, you don't like laws like 16 years old shouldn't go to cinemas (I didnt know there was one hehe) then criticize it all you want. But don't just think you can throw caution to the wind and criticize ad nauseam without a reaction. Someone is bound to disagree (ummm, I would say 100% of the locals) with your views and will criticize your outlook, too. Why is that so hard to understand and digest?
If you don't want criticism then kindly dont criticize yourself. Simple rule of thumb.
Shlemazl-
Sigh :( You disappoint me...
i*
I wonder what makes Brits start searching for porn as soon as they get to KSA and UAE. You see, I got very few hits from western Europe. Perhaps you can repeat the experiment - see where you get all your hits from.
Not claiming that my "experiment" is scientific, I accept your inside knowledge and agree that none of UAE natives would ever search for porn - it must have been 100% "guests". Perhaps it's them Zionist spies working tirelessly to besmearch the image of this Arab country.
I would like to quote El Khoury (another Zionist spy from UAE):
"The cultural controls imposed on people living in the Arab world make them hungrier to explore the world of dot-com sexual thrills, he said.
"Of course there is a much bigger need in the Arab world because of the sexual suppression," he said. "If it's illegal, then people want it. It's not because they are oversexed, or their sexual needs are more than other people. But if you make something illegal, especially something as natural as sex, then it becomes more in demand"
Source: http://www.wired.com/culture/lifestyle/news/2001/04/43243
The key question here is whether you agree with your government - which can do no wrong - censoring sites like S&D. If so, why on earth should they allow "People and cake"?
Actually, that's another anecdotal trend that I noticed. Western bloggers are mostly male and they mostly blog about politics. Bloggers in Arab countries are, to a large extend, female. They are disproprtionately focused on sex lives. Why do you think that is the case?
Damn I missed the entire 'bitch-fight' session! Too late to join in now :-( lol
why on earth do you care
you've been blocked .. move on ..
its the blogosphere
it would've been ok if the block came from someone else not claiming freedom of speech...but unfortunately these are the international off-spring of "Fox News"...they don't even know the rules of debating and they say that they are the one who are gonna break free this culture from its shackles (keep using the F word that will free us and will make us as civilised as the western world)....
And pleeease...its not a personal blog, its a blog representing the UAE (unfortunately)...so all the people should be allowed to participate equally regardless of their thoughts...
I mean I can do way more harm than banning a contact to that blog, simply by saying that I don't like it and the things that are discussed there are not a part of the UAE nor a representation of my culture....but I don't believe in threats and bullying like SD and the rest....
I so hope they un-ban you i*maginate as you are one of the very critical voices of the UAE blog community....
shlemazl-
You are so gung-ho about Arabs d/l porn from YOUR SITE (WTfudge?), but are conveniently looking the other way when I am putting forward to you a challenge of Jewish perversion.
Whereas your facts and figures are completely obscure and unverifiable (not to mention the demographical and statistical details are just plain old clown talk), I am bring you hard evidence in the form independent News papers and magazines from the WEST and EVEN the Knesset!
So do you want the evidence or not? Or will you be a good sport and take a hit for your team and spill the beans? I really dont want to force my evidences (against your will) on you because that would be equivalent to RAPING your mental intellect.
Ever heard of that adage, People in glass houses dont throw stones?
Al Republican,
You don't get it.
I am not saying that Israelis don't download or make porn. Who cares? Everyone does - it's natural - and, incidentally, Maxim isn't pornography.
What I am saying is that
1. Contrary to what you claim you do not speak for all Arabs when you support censorship.
2. By attempting sexual suppression in the media Arab governments are in fact driving up porn downloads as well as prostitution and other problems of this nature.
In any case, S&D is NOT pornotgraphy; no more than i*maginate.
Sugar-free Sweetie, stick to practicing your beliefs and leave worldly debates to atheists.
About your comment of this blogger being a critical voice of the UAE community blog, I couldn’t agree with you more but in a nonsensical way – LMAO.
Love your recent post & its comments, ever thought of going pro? LMAO.
Anonymous....thanx for your concerns...but see if there are atheists there will be believers...you can't clap with one hand...it will be so boring in a world ruled only be atheists, maybe they will be no debate since there is no god...in that case people like you will search and drag in people like me, simply to say "LMAO"
Anyone reading both of our comments can easily tell who is the real pro between us...so don't even bother
But don't just think you can throw caution to the wind and criticize ad nauseam without a reaction. Someone is bound to disagree (ummm, I would say 100% of the locals) with your views and will criticize your outlook, too.
I do beg to differ, al-republican.
As a local, I do agree with some of sam's arguments. What's the problem with insulting Etisalat? It's just a government company that was exploiting us when it had a monopoly. I still feel it's ripping me off, which is why I switched to du and don't mind sticking with it despite it's faults.
The laws are outdated. The UAE isn't the same as it was 10 years ago. Things have to change whether we (as locals) like it or not. Our so called beloved leaders want to make this place the business hub of the Middle East and maybe the world at the expense of our culture and religion.
You shouldn't blame the expats who are complaining, you should blame the government because it is their fault. They're the ones who want the "guests" to come here.
If Dubai really does want to join the ranks of the world's "elite" it has to do away with such silly things as censoring the internet and treating the population like children.
Moviemania-
Sure you are a local. As much as Etisalat is liberal.
Why don't you start a movement or something? Is "regime change" on your agenda? You will get lots of supporters for your cause.
Shlemazl-
I think I speak for local Arabs better than you. You aren't Muslim to start with and nowhere NEAR being Arab. So, save it.
Why are you SOOO desperate for us to watch porn, mate? How does that help you? Or do you think watching porn "liberates" us? I guess all these THOUSANDS of years humanity was TERRIBLY surpressed.
And then came Hue Heffner (sigh, Jew again)... Hmmm, maybe he IS the last prophet that you guys are waiting for! No wonder you are spreading his "teachings"!
Al-republican,
Not only are you, aparently, the spokesman for all Arabs (who disagrees isn't "local", right?), but you are also putting your words into my mouth. I noticed you are doing the same to the others.
Either that or your reading comprehension skills are not very good.
Haha, are you serious? Do I have to show you a passport to prove that I'm a local? Can't you accept that maybe you can't speak for all the local population?
Maybe I will start a regime change, why not? While I do respect your views al-rep, I believe they are too conservative for what Dubai is becoming and is striving to become.
shlemazl is right as well, if someone disagrees automatically they aren't local? Can't you accept people and opinions different from yours?
*samuraisam, firstly I apologise for calling you sam, don't know why I've been doing that!
Now hmm. You're mixing a lot of stuff up, for e.g. the musical instruments & the govt. That group of individuals is not the govt.
I agree and understand your pals would not lie to you. But one thing comes to my mind since you brought it up: is that if you have so many connections, have you tried talking to them? And since you're an aspiring journalist have you ever considered interviewing them "unofficially" and asking for permission to publish the interview?
I don't have anything new to say to you than what I said in my last response to you. Critising the government and the Rulers is illegal.
Another point: you talk about laws and freedom of the press etc. The fact is, you are a foreigner here and these "values" you value are some of the things locals don't like - it's basically saying "Hello you, you are barbaric because you don't follow "western" systems".
I don't know how else to say it. Don't take it personally, it's an impression of how I interpret these kinds of "expat views".
sam - another thing - did you think maybe why some people might want your blog blocked? Leaving the musical instruments thing out of it, surely your views do not go down well with these locals.
Nother point - I feel sad you think it's OK to "hand out similar criticism as a defence" and stereotype locals the way you do. I *know* from reading your blog that you had some personal issues, possibly involving locals (you didn't quite give it away, I'm making assumptions) but really, knowing locals as well as you do, you're actually causing harm with the stuff you write.
*localexpat, yeah you missed it.
SEE EVERYONE?! Localexpat is listed under my dislike list and still we can have a normal conversation (umm, with a bit of self-restraint)!
*inmotion if you'd read the comments section before commenting, you might have seen I've been unbanned. Yeah, it's the blogosphere but imagine not being able to comment on a blog you like?
*sugar-free sweetie, we need some sweetness on this blog! As I said on your post, views from our school of thought are quite rare here and the more differing opinions, the better. Btw, I *have* been unbanned, you have to give samuraisam (& prob even SD) and the other bloggers on here credit, for it is they who have supported a lifting of the ban.
*al republican, may I also use that phrase "wtfudge"? It's hilarious!
*moviemania
"Our so called beloved leaders want to make this place the business hub of the Middle East and maybe the world at the expense of our culture and religion.
Which life do you prefer, the one "before", or the one "after"?
You shouldn't blame the expats who are complaining, you should blame the government because it is their fault. They're the ones who want the "guests" to come here.
So you don't like the "guests". What exactly are you claiming is the "government's fault"?
If Dubai really does want to join the ranks of the world's "elite" it has to do away with such silly things as censoring the internet and treating the population like children.
I don't feel like I'm being treated like a child ;) How come you do?
*moviemania, there is one important thing to remember, and that is, that not many locals blog. Locals are outnumbered by expats, and most bloggers on the UAE Comm blog are expats. So the rare occasion when a local does blog, for some odd reason, it does not seem to represent the majority's view. That's what I've observed from reading local-written blogs and comparing it to real-life opinions that are spoken out, as opposed to anonymous blogging.
You know as well as I do, and al republican/sugar-free sweetie do, that your view is WAY outnumbered by the majority of the local population.
You are more than welcome to express your views here, I'd be interested in hearing them, and so would others. You write well & have an interesting blog.
Al-republican's views are no less conservative than the majority of UAE locals. After all, isn't it *you* who's complaining that the culture is being lost? Why are you complaining about Al-republican's views when it's these kinds of views that are *supporting* the culture that *guests* are not?
I didn't say that *I* didn't like the "guests" I was just talking about locals in general. I was commenting on culture, etc from the point of view of locals who are complaining about expats and such.
Yes, of course I do know that my views are the minority amongst the local population because they haven't started to think and to open their eyes.
They accept what they are told and don't oppose anything and so you find most locals have the same views.
And I do feel like a child. Who says that Etisalat can tell me what I can or can't read/see?
And thanks for the compliments, btw :) I enjoy reading your blogs!
Uh oh.. looks like I'm very late! anyhoo...
@i*maginate.. why are you so bothered that you're banned from these 2 blogs? obviously you and SD don't get along and it's her choice whether to keep you out or let you in. Same thing with UAE community blog. It's upto the admins. Just like you have the choice to ban bloggers you don't like. However, I do think that banning from the UAE community is a little extreme as it is a "community" blog that let's people share their views and opinions openly without bias.
@samuraisam.. if you think a blogger is becoming a pest on the blog, then why not confront him/her privately to clear things up. Banning should be the absolutely last resort. In addition, I think using such language to get your point across really doesn't do the job right, as people veer away from the topic and focus on the most prominent thing, which in this case would be the very generous use of the word "fuck" in every sentence. Everyone gets upset but there's no need to overdo it! (anyway, that issue has been cleared but I jsut wanted to get my point across! :))
All said and done, let's end this topic. I agree with what Buj said: "This soap opera is so unnecessary."
Sam I would really appreciate it if you stopped talking about locals like you know each and everyone of us! I'm referring to your last COMMENT!
"Yes, there are two groups of locals, those that agree with the government and hate expats, and those that disagree with the government and can deal with expats."
On what bases and sources do you base your claims?!
If you guys are desperate to see a change, you might as well try to contact the "right" people. In the proper LANGUAGE!!!
sam, imaginate is pakistani.
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